NOTE: The WHITE text is the OLD text, which the NEW text in BLUE refers to.

This BELOW is Sam's Reply to My letter


******,

I WROTE:

actually now that u mention it, i found it rather funny that the mail i sent you and all the messages i sent you regarding your site
were answered by her. amusing, made me wonder if men are "oppressed" in your culture in the sense that they do not have enough say to deal with their own matters or if women are "oppressed" into doing everything for them. i was just thinking, you had the time to create a brilliant site but left the mailing and queries to your secretary?
 

SAM REPLIES:

This was so funny! No... I leave those who I find the most humorous to her. She is the one who has the issues with Islam, not me. I find it barbarous and below contempt. I thought she would get a kick out of you, and she did.
_______________________

I WROTE:

The certificate you put on your website declaring your religious authority is rather amusing, too. Why do you put a FAKE cert saying you are a qualified man of the church? Is it perhaps a need to add credibility to yourself, which you lack otherwise? Your work on the bible at http://www.erols.com/cygnus6 is very thorough. But that cert is surely a comical reflection of insecurity. I asked your girlfriend to ask you this but she never replied..

SAM REPLIES:

Actually, had you read my whole page... like the very page that you linked
to my cert from, you would have read that it was meant as a joke, and that
those who took it seriously should have their head examined. Maybe you
should have paid closer attention?
_______________________

I WROTE:

you think less of Islam than you do of Christianity? How interesting since you DO have a site on trashing the Bible and none trashing the Quran...why i wonder? My first guess is that you don't have anything to say about trashing the Quran besides the "womens rights" that you and your girlfriend go on and on about. Makes enough sense to me. Why create a site on something you ain't got nothing much to say about?

SAM REPLIES:
And why create a site for something that you find below contempt? Or why create a site on a primitive religion? Or why create a site on something that promotes barbarism?

All valid questions.
_______________________

I WROTE:

that reminds me, I have noticed a similarity among western women who rant on and on about how the Quran promotes the oppression of women. Do you reckon that Western women are INSECURE, Sam? Cos' it seems to me, they have this intense dislike for anything that 'seems' remotely oppressive. What happened to democracy and human rights in America? Are the women there so fearful and insecure that if they let a bunch of rules into their lives, that would be the end of their freedom?
that's what it looks like to me.

SAM REPLIES:

Interesting perspective. You ask what happened to democracy with one hand...and with the other you ask why they should have dislike for anything remotely oppressive. You struck me as more intelligent than this at first. I am sure that you could reason through why someone who enjoys democratic freedom so foerign to Muslims and Islamic countries would dislike
oppression.
_____________________

I WROTE:

You know what I think OPPRESSION is Sam? It is the need to conform to ideas of beauty and other external qualities that dominate modern societies today. In a modern society, almost every woman at one time or other is disturbed, depressed because she is overweight, because her skirt isn't short enough, because she feels she needs larger physical attributes and does not have the money for plastic surgery, that she doesn't have fancy clothes or the right make up on.

THAT IS OPPRESSION. The constant need to look beautiful as society prescribes so that you don't feel inferior or so that you get this job you really want and so on. Can you very confidently say that this is not a problem in modern socities and that it is a form of oppression of women?

SAM REPLIES:

Yes. I can confidently say that this is not a problem in modern societies. I can also confidently say that women in "modern societies" are becoming more and more confident for the most part by the equality that is not found in more primitive societies that cling to Islam.

Any woman who feels that she needs to conform to fit in has a personal problem. It is too typical of an outsider to blame the whole for the faults of the individual.
______________________

I WROTE:

For a Muslim woman who wears the hijaab, she is judged by her mind and her deeds only...not by how sexy she looks, how much cleavage she's showing and how much make up she's wearing. when a man looks at her, he looks into her eyes and his focus is on what she says and the way she thinks and not anything else. that is freedom.

SAM REPLIES:

You don't really believe this, do you? If you do, then I am afraid that you  are incredibly naive. Women wear hijaab because it distracts men from God. It is the exact same reason why Orthodox Jewish women cover their heads. I am sure that they stem back to the same source... a Jewish source. Your entire religion does stem back to Judaism, you know? It is one of the two
bastard children of Judaism. Christianity is the other in case you didn't already guess.
_________________________

I WROTE:

Has your modern society ever had a female leader? do women even RUN for elections? What happened to the independance and rights of women? Do you know how many Islamic countries were and are still ruled by women?

SAM REPLIES:

Hello?!?!? Anyone home? Do you know that women are gaining more and more seats in congress in the US? Do you know that women are gaining more and more power in this society?

I think that that is quite a lot for a country that is only 200 years old.
__________________

I WROTE:

So what are the reasons for domestic violence among non-muslims in America? I mean they don't have the Quran which tells them they can hit their women. So what do you say? what is the cause of the majority of domestic violence cases? HITTING WIVES is a social problem. That is why it cuts across all barriers of race and culture and religion.

SAM REPLIES:

The reason? They are sick. And a book like the Qu'ran that not only allows it, but teaches it, as well, is a very sick book. Makes me wonder if there are any self-respecting Muslim women at all.
_______________________

I WROTE:

As I told your girlfriend (in a mail/icq msg she conveniently ignored) when she said that "we shouldn't believe in a religion just because a man told us to believe in it'. IF you did a thorough study of the Quran, you will see scientific data and other information in it which was unthought of during the time of Prophet Muhammad. The verses and words of the Quran are locked
with a mathematical formula. Each word occurs a specific number of times and the word opposite in meaning occurs exactly one extra time.

SAM REPLIES:

Whay a load of crap! Have you heard of the Bible Code? Who is going to go through the Qu'ran or the Bible and prove this crap wrong? That is why it is there. Because the person who proposed it was confident enough to know that it would be near impossible to disprove.
__________________________

I WROTE:

tell me Sam, If you haven't realised, Prophet Muhammad did not have a laptop. He did not have word count or the scientific information that is in the Quran (which speaks of the data only scientists today are discovering). I would love to hear how you would explain how this book came about DEVOID OF ANY INCONSISTENSIES, MISTAKES, CONTRADICTIONS 1400 years ago.

SAM REPLIES:

Boy! You bought that bridge hook, line and sinker, didn't you? There are no mistakes, inconsistencies, etc?!? First, the fact that a book has no mistakes does not make it divine. Second, I would like to see some proof that there are no mistakes. Can you prove it? No. Have you even read the Qu'ran all of the way through? I am willing to guess that the answer is no
to that as well.

The violence that the Qu'ran has produced is all of the mistakes that I need to see. You see... with such a primitive text, it is proven wrong before the pages have even begun to turn.

Do you know about the Baha'i massacres in the 1850's? Probably not, I would guess.
_______________________

I WROTE:

Islam does not instruct Muslims to fight to GET TO ALLAH. that is a Christian concept whereby you have to convert THREE people in order to make it to heavan. You and August have mentioned several times that very soon you will have a site on Islam very soon, hence i assume that you are claiming to have studied it thoroughly...there are numerous verses that warn against fighting and killing for the wrong reasons which i'm sure you chose to ignore at your convenience.

SAM REPLIES:

Please. Neither of us have made any mention of making a Muslim web site. I have not studied it thouroughly because it is below contempt.

And you are making shit up with this convert three people thing. Christianity has no such tenet.
_______________________

I WROTE:

Sam, if you judge a religion and culture based on a small cohort of people then from my experiences, I can readily say that Wiccans are impulsive, insecure, VERY EMOTIONAL and rather moronic. Am I right? Cos' I have received several e-mails from Wiccans (your girlfriend included) with regards to the contents of my site and BELIEVE ME, one proved more moronic
than the other. I refer you to a section called 'Emails I have received' on my website. I have put there a thread of e-mails that we exchanged with a Wiccan not too long ago. She's not the only Wiccan who came charging at me.
 

SAM REPLIES:

And?
______________________

I WROTE:

I have to say though, your girlfirend isn't all that bad, she certainly makes more sense that the others I have spoken to. Although I did have a good laugh when she sent me a warning in reply to mail i sent you. I have a flower in my signature file which is sent automatically to every receipient. She called me something like a habibti (made me wonder if she knows English or not - or if she's trying to impress me by using words I myself do not use) and said that it is HARAM to send a flower to a man (her boyfriend) via the internet...*laugh*...what a way to start the day!

SAM REPLIES:

Yes, well... you have proven her correct by this response. I took nothing from your letter about the flower. But she does know what is Haram and if she says that it is, then I believe her. I also believe that you know that it is Haram. Of course... you probably pick and choose which rules of your religion you choose to follow.
______________________

I WROTE:

with regards to your questions, here's what i have to say off the top of my head

>> Why would a God reveal his/her truth to one individual or a select number of individuals when a being that is all-powerful could have this information be inbred into us so we instinctually know it at birth?

simple: we are differentiated from all other creatures by one thing. FACULTY OF REASON. the ability to make knowledgeable decisions and to be able to see the difference between right and wrong. PUMPING this information
into everyone defeats the purpose of giving us the ability to choose! That is the main purpose of us being here - to choose or not to choose.

SAM REPLIES:

Well... besides confusing two issues (humans vs. other animals and free-will) this is the typical Christian answer, too. It is of course a load, since true free-will would be knowing what is real or not and then choosing.
__________________________

>>Why would God send us here to live our lives in accordance to a fixed destiny?

I WROTE:

you know how people say that it's no use what we do in our lives, everything has been written in the book of destiny right? people resign to this fact. but what they don't realise is that YES it's written in the book of destiny IT IS ALSO destiny if we choose one alternative or the other. God has left this decision making to us. that is the point of us coming here. we may be
little itty gritty things with souls in comparison to the might of Him but he has given each of us that significant amount of decision making power.ultimately it boils down to how you believe or what you believe to be the purpose of mankind... when that is subjective, the answer is subective.

SAM REPLIES:

Um.... OK. You clearly do not understand what destiny is. You can not have a choice in destiny since destiny is something that choice plays no part in. Destiny = everything is predetermined.

Look the word up.

__________________________________

>>2. Why would a God who is Good reward those who believe and punish those who don't when it is God who has all of the power and all of the knowledge?

I WROTE:

what does God having infinite power and knowledge have to do with US ACCEPTING IT? if he is good, why don't the disbelievers believe? If you read the Quran carefully, you will see that there is one thing that God will not forgive - the denial and inacceptance that He is THE GOD, the one and only with no others equal in power. He will forgive all other sins..ALL others but not this one. You answer your own question when you say "when it is God who has all of the power and all of the knowledge"....since people KNOW this fact and still decide to acknowledge it, why wouldn't he punish them?

SAM REPLIES:

And you read into my question exactly what you wish. A God with all of the power has the responsibility to convince. You say that one-fifth of the world is Muslim. Sounds like your God is not very convincing. Oh... and how many of "one-fifth of the world" is too young to know better since Muslims generally have a zillion children per family?

__________________________

>>3. Shouldn't this God make the information clearer and non-refutable?

I WROTE:
how is the information unclear and irrefutable? please be more specific when you mention inconsistencies and contradictions.

SAM REPLIES:

No, thanks. Again. It is below contempt. It is about at the same level as cave-drawings as far as theology goes.
_________________________

I WROTE:
>Just like you question the clarity of the Quran, people have constantly done so ever since Prophet Muhammad's time. In the Quran, there is scientific data about cosmology, evolution of life from water, growth of the embryo, etc. Cosmology was explained clearly 600 years after the revelation of the Quran, by Gallileo. That's when people were able to make sense of the 'unclear' verses on cosmology. Before that, they were confused and pointing fingers as you are doing now. Alot of the Quran's verses have been explained by scientific discovery over the last 2 centuries and particularly the last 3 decades..before that it was UNCLEAR.
 

SAM REPLIES:

And if you believe this, then you are even more gullible then I earlier gave you credit before. Like the typical fundamentalist that you are, you do not state anything specific, but go on and on about generalities that can neither be proven nor disproven. Congratulations. You are a typical fundie.

Give me something solid. Something concrete. Of course, this will include proving that the verses you claim prove this science were actually written in the time that the Qu'ran is believed to have been written. I am willing to bet that the Qu'ran was written by several men (just like the Bible) and that Muhammed was just a man who was mythologized (just like Jesus). This
makes your religion not equal to, but worse than Christianity, as yours condones violence.
____________________________

I WROTE:

so if you don't understand something in the Quran, blame it on your and my limited knowledge of the world, don't point your finger outwards. It woudl be rather egotistical of me to claim that the world is stupid just because i don't understand it!

SAM REPLIES:

I never said that the Qu'ran or Islam were stupid. I said that they were primitive and barbarous. And I said it because I DO understand all that I need to understand to draw this conclusion.

_____________________
 

I WROTE:

You say that these questions cannot be answered by any of the religions. That's where you are pointing your fingers in the wrong direction. Islam does explain these but it's frankly your problem if you wish to deny that it does. If you can't and don't want to understand it, it's a different story altogether.

SAM REPLIES:

You could change the words and be a Christian. You do not know how many time that I have heard this same claptrap from a Christian who could not defend their religion successfully. You can not prove that I am incorrect, so you say that I do not understand or I am choosing to disbelieve. It is not my choice to make. It is the faith's responsibility to be concise enough to
understand. Christianity doesn't, and Islam even less.
_____________________

I WROTE:

with referance to your quote below

>>"You might have lived a good life as an exemplary Christian, only to be met at the gates of Heaven by Mohammed.
>>That's called fate."

how interesting that you should highlight an Islamic concept. I wonder if you know that out of all the souls lined up for HEAVAN on Judgement Day, most will be those who lived as people of OTHER RELIGIONS OR NO RELIGION at
all!!
 

SAM REPLIES:

And as I warned you not to, you read more into the quote than you should have.

First, only fools and children believe in a Judgement Day. Only someone in need of a celestial parent needs to be rewarded or punished for their life. A God that loves unconditionally accepts ALL home. This is the God of my belief.

Second, the quote would be for you:

"You could have lived your whole life as a pious Muslim, only to find Jesus and St. Peter waiting for you at the gates of Heaven."

or

"You could have lived your whole life as a righteous Muslim, only to find a six-foot hole awaiting you upon your death... and nothing more."

________________________

I WROTE:

I shall wait till your site includes what you have to say about the Quran being something you and August "spit on". As far as I know, all you two have come up with women are beaten in Islam. Pfffft...even that is, as your girlfriend says, taken out of context. I wish you luck, YOU'RE GONNA NEED A LOT OF THAT!

SAM REPLIES:

Do not wait too long. I do not write about Roman Mythology for the same reason that I do not write about Islam. First, both are equally correct about such issues as God, and second, they are equally repulsive in their violence.

I need no luck at all, sister. I have truth. Something that you lack at this point.
 

I WROTE:
p.s.
if you can maintain your professionalism, i asked to be added to the webring called "World Religions"..the one with the spinning globe as its logo.

SAM REPLIES:

I do not know whose site you are looking at, but this is my page with the web rings on it:

http://www.erols.com/cygnus6/pageRings.html

On it is one ring with a globe. It is called the Un-Holy Bible Web Ring, and your site does not meet the requirements for membership.

There is another one that looks like it may have a spinning globe in it, but it is known as the Freethought ring and is mostly made up of Atheists and Free-thinkers. You do not qualify there either.

The one ring that you may actually qualify for is known as the Theological Discussions ring. It is geared for all religions. But it has no logo. To join it, you should go to my page and click on their mini-banner or the colored words in their title.

Good luck to ya!
 

Click HERE to read my reply to Sam 



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